Salvation in Christ"Response to Plesiosaurian.com"
and
"New Theories on Living Plesiosaurs"
An article written by Adam Stuart Smith, an expert on plesiosaur remains wrote a critique of the accounts of living plesiosaurs. He believes that earth’s layers built up over millions of years and that by 65 million years, all the giant reptiles had vanished completely. I, Phillip O’Donnell believe that nearly all of earth’s layers were laid down through the Flood of Noah’s Day, approx. 4,400 years ago. I am a strong advocate of living plesiosaurs. Below I will reply to his statements:
1.) Smith - Unfortunately, to this day, the most compelling photographs of possible living plesiosaurs have either been demonstrated or admitted as hoaxes (Fig. 1), or are of such ambiguity or low resolution/quality, that they remain insufficient as evidence.
1.) O’Donnell – I strongly disagree. Not only are there genuine photographs, but also films of creatures that strongly resemble our reconstructions of giant marine reptiles. For example in 1980 an animal surfaced near the
A still from John Holme's video Source
This carcass washed up on a South Africa Coast. It has features
similiar to the Mosasaur. Source
This carcass washed up in Situate Harbour, Mass. Debate raged
whether it was an unknown creature from the deep or a Basking Shark.
2.) Smith - There are plenty of reported sightings of purported sea monsters, yet there are two main problems with sightings – firstly they are not testable and therefore do not provide scientific evidence. A lie detector test might determine if the witness is telling the truth or not, but this brings us onto the second problem with sightings, eye witness accounts have been demonstrated to be notoriously inaccurate.
2.) O’Donnell – I agree that some sightings may be hoaxes or misidentifications of known animals. However, there are still many accounts that cannot be “thrown out” with the hoaxes. For example, in 1905 two naturalists off the coast of
Thousands of people say they have seen monsters similar to giant marine reptiles. How could all these people be ignorant or unaware of what they saw? On July 19, 1896, there were over 200 persons who saw a giant sea-reptile off the
3.) – Smith - Purported living plesiosaur ‘photographs’ and ‘sightings’ often portray or describe animals that do not match the basic body shape of all known plesiosaurs.
3.) – O’Donnell – We must remember that there are probably several ocean-dwelling, undiscovered animals – some reptiles, some not. Just because someone saw an unknown mammal or eel does not mean that all “sea-monsters” are mammals. Saurian encounters should be kept in a separate category. I could mention dozens of accounts that fit with plesiosaurs.
In 1833, British geologist Robert Bakewell wrote, “I remember one of the most particular descriptions of the sea serpent was given by an American captain, who saw the animal raise a large portion of its body out of the water: he reported it as of great length, and about the bulk of a large water cask; it had paddles somewhat like a turtle, and enormous jaws like a crocodile.” Reports like this also give skeptics problems because if this report is true, it would mean that plesiosaurs are still living. It would only take one true account. In 1849, Louis Agassiz wrote, “The truth is…that if a naturalist had to sketch the outlines of…Plesiosaurus from the remains we have of them, he would make a drawing very similar to the sea-serpent as it has been described…I still consider it probable that it will be the good fortune of some person on the coast of Norway or North America to find a living representative of this type of reptile, which is thought to have died out.”
For many years people in and around
4.) Smith - The fact that the first sightings coincide with the first discoveries of plesiosaur.
4.) O’Donnell – I strongly disagree: encounters of plesiosaur and moasosaur-like creatures have going on for thousands of years.
5.) Smith - Unfortunately, not everyone understands, wants to understand, or accepts the science behind evolution…
5.) O’Donnell – I do accept the “science” woven into the theory of evolution – Micro Evolution. I do not accept Macro Evolution which has never been seen, proven, or documented. There is more evidence of living plesiosaurs than for Macro Evolution.
References:
· Gaal, Arlene 2001. In Search of Ogopogo Hancock House Publishers
· O’Neill, J. P. 1999 The
· Malam, John and Parker, Steve 2003 Encyclopedia of Dinosaurs David West Children’s Books
· Bakewell, Robert 1833 Introduction to Geology
· O’Donnell, Phillip 2006 Dinosaurs: Dead or Alive? Xulon
Press
"New Theories on Living Plesiosaurs"
by Tom Cargill
Most people don't believe that lake monsters like Nessie, Champ, or ogopogo are plesiosaurs. This is mainly because plesiosaurs are thought to be marine reptiles, and how could a reptile survive in such frigid temperatures if it's cold-blooded?
I recently found on LiveScience.com that scientists discovered that
dinosaurs such as "T-rex" and velociraptors had bird genomes in their DNA (1.). This means they had some traits similar to birds, which can be seen in their fossils (the enlarged chest cavity and the limb structure). This got me thinking: can't this go the other way too? Couldn't other dinosaurs and prehistoric animals have had genomes similar to mammals, like plesiosaurs? Could some of it's traits have been similar to a seal, to be more specific (hey, they do have four flippers, and in some sea serpent sightings, a mane or hairs have been included in the description of the creatures)? Let's look at the facts for a second. The three lake monsters mentioned above live in cold temperatures.
They must be able to sustain a constant body temperature (warm-blooded) to survive. Also, from the data I've seen, so far we've never found a fossilized plesiosaur nest site with eggs. Could they have possibly given live birth to only one pup at a time, like a seal? In addition, seals and plesiosaurs have similar spots in the food chain: they both eat fish and shellfish, and are preyed upon by larger marine animals. So, could plesiosaurs have in their DNA the traits to be warm-blooded, and give live birth to only one young (which is why we don't see several Champs or Nessies, since they wouldn't give birth to several through eggs)? I think it's a reasonable possibility.
Of course, some people believe that these creatures are quite simply hoaxes. Granted, there are fake photographs out there, but considering lake monsters such as Champ and Nessie have been seen since early times, it's highly unlikely that these animals are mere fabrications. Now obviously, even though we've never observed a prehistoric animal like a plesiosaur in captivity, we can still make a safe assumption that no single animal, prehistoric or modern day, can live hundreds of years. So the Nessie or Champ we're seeing today most likely isn't the same one Indians and Knights were seeing hundreds of years ago. This is why I think there's more than one of these animals in these lakes. Unless they reproduce asexually, which is highly unlikely, there has to be another one in the lakes to keep the Nessie, Champ, and Ogopogo "bloodline" going, since these animals are still being seen today. Obviously in most sightings, only one lake monster is sighted. However, if you observe a list of sightings of a single lake monster like Champ or Nessie, you'll notice the description of the size or color of the monster usually varies in each sighting. Whether it's the person's mistake in reporting the size of the lake monster in the sighting or not, who's to say that that was the same individual "monster" that was involved in the last recorded sighting?
Other people believe that these lake monsters are either giant eels,
snakes, or the prehistoric whale, known as Basilosaurus. Snakes and eels swim in a side-to-side motion, not up and down like the typical sea serpent.
Moreover, eels are physically incapable of lifting a part of their body out of the water long enough for a person to take a picture of it. They cannot flatten themselves horizontally like a snake does to float on the surface of water. In addition, these animals cannot be snakes. For example, the average temperature of Loch Ness is 42 degrees Fahrenheit (2.). Any snake swimming in these waters would die of shock, considering they're cold-blooded. Lastly, these lake monsters are most likely not Basilosaurs. Paleontologists believe that Basilosaurus needed to take in a tremendous amount of food everyday to keep going. (3.)
How would a 50-70 foot-long whale that is used to eating large squid and sharks on a daily basis survive in a lake?
Loch Ness and Lake Champlain are very similar: they are both deep lakes that lie on fault lines. During ancient times, these lakes were most likely bays, being connected to open ocean. Plesiosaurs would have probably stayed in these bays to try to evade some of their predators that lived in deeper waters, including pliosaurs such as Kronosaurus, cetaceans like the sperm whale, and even possibly large sharks such as the Megalodon. As time went by, tectonic plates shifted, which eventually "locked" a small group of plesiosaurs in these massive lakes. Their food was still available in they're new environment (fish and possibly shellfish), just without the natural predators, making it the perfect habitat.
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1._http://www.livescience.com/animals/070307_dino_genome.html_
(http://www.livescience.com/animals/070307_dino_genome.html)
2._http://www.loch-ness.org/files/miscellaneous.html_
(http://www.loch-ness.org/files/miscellaneous.html)
3._http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/seamonsters/factfiles/basilosaurus.shtml_